#39 - Chris Lang: Writing Record-Breaking TV with Unforgotten, Screenwriting Rituals, Finding Humanity in Murderers, and Dealing With Failure in the Entertainment Business

Today’s guest is the king of British detective drama writing. Having discovered his talent for the written word whilst in a comedy troupe with a pre-movie star Hugh Grant, my guest later transitioned to drama where he has produced over 100 hours of primetime television including a multitude of hits including Innocent, which pulled in EIGHT MILLION viewers on ITV, The Thief His Wife and the Canoe which was watched by TEN million in 2022 and picked up our guest a BAFTA nomination as well as a pick of the year slot in The New York Times and of course his soon to be 6th series of record-breaking detective drama Unforgotten.

Along the way, according to his IMDB at least, he also appears to have had a stint as a voice actor in the Harry Potter video game series. What can’t he do?! My guest is Mr Chris Lang

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mike: Hello, Mike here. Today's guest doesn't just have an outrageous career of hits behind him, but he was cracking fun too. In the episode, Chris and I discuss transitioning from acting to writing the number one key skill to have to make it in the entertainment business, dealing with failure, making the move from comedy, writing to drama, how to plan out one of TV's most successful detective series, his daily writing process, humanity and murderers.

[00:00:25] The best piece of advice he's ever been given and more. That's enough from me. Here we go.

[00:00:35] Hello and welcome to Red Carpet Rookies. My name is Mike Battle, a film crew member turns screenwriter working in London. Each episode I bring you life lessons and stories from the people behind your favorite movies and shows to help demystify the business for aspiring filmmakers and fans alike. Thanks for joining me.

[00:00:55] Let's get started. Today's guest is the king of British detective drama writing, having discovered his talent for the written word, whilst in a comedy troop with a Premo star, Hugh Grant, my guest later transitioned to drama where he's produced over 100 hours of primetime television. Including a multitude of hits including Innocent, which pulled in 8 million viewers on I T V, the Thief, his wife, and the Canoe, which was watched by 10 million in 2022 and picked up our guest a Baf nomination as well as a pick of the year slot in the New York Times, and of course his soon to be six series of record breaking Detective drama Unforgotten.

[00:01:34] Along the way, according to his imdb at least, he also appears to have had a stint as a voice actor in the Harry Potter video game series. What can't he do? My guest is Mr. Chris Lang. How are you doing today? 

[00:01:45] Chris: I'm very well. Lovely intro. 

[00:01:47] Mike: Thank you. You're very welcome. Now, Chris, the question that I ask all of my guests first up is, what did your parents do and did it affect your career choices moving forward?

[00:01:56] Oh, that's 

[00:01:57] Chris: a good question. Um, my mom was an art teacher and my dad started out as a salesman and then became an antique dealer, and I would say yes, their, their work and the professions that they chose hugely influenced my ability, desire to enter the industry. I did. I obviously came in at a slightly different angle to where I.

[00:02:20] Ended up, which was as a writer and producer. But I started out, um, as an actor and when you have parents that, uh, are connected to the arts, they both were, obviously Mom was a, she started as a sculptor, then she became a, a teacher and my dad, um, Although he started out from a very work class background, started work at 14 during the war and became a salesman when he moved into set buying and selling antiques.

[00:02:45] That was his true passion. And my mom and dad actually met at art school. And when you have parents who are connected to the arts and creative industries, the importance of them enabling someone who wants to go into such a precarious and difficult, and at that time, in the late seventies when I decided what I wanted to do, Such a sort of esoteric profession was, you know, it's incalculable, how important it was that they supported me.

[00:03:13] Uh, when I went to, uh, my Careers Master, when we all had our careers chat in the, I don't know what it was, fifth year or last sixth or something like that, I was at the grammar school and I said, I think I might want to go to a drama school. The Royal Academy was the one I had my eyes on, which was the one that I ended up going to.

[00:03:32] I was the first person ever. Of my school to, to wow. Express that desire. Um, I go back to my old school a fair amount, um, to do chats and talk to some of the students and, you know, they've got a, a bespoke theater, um, you know, drama. And the entry into the arts is now, uh, understood hugely. Um, legitimate career, um, and no problem whatsoever with, with kids going into the arts.

[00:03:57] But in the seventies it was really, uh, an extraordinary thing to, so to have the support, my mom and dad who, who came from the arts themselves, my, my mom's dad was a musician, so, you know, it's really hard to over overestimate how important that is to have the support and the belief. And your parents, and they didn't laugh.

[00:04:15] They didn't say, don't be absurd. Don't, they didn't say, this is just an impossibly difficult industry. They just said, if that's what you really believe in and that's where your passion is, yeah, go for 

[00:04:24] Mike: it. Amazing. And I guess, yeah, you are going against the grains slightly, particularly when you are a more traditional grammar school.

[00:04:30] And I wondered if perhaps in your twenties or those early years where you were pursuing the arts, if you had any kind of mental anguish over your choice in the sense that. I also have potentially made the same choices as yourself. Also going to grammar school and maybe looking at some of your friends who went into more corporate jobs that may have paid out a little earlier and things like that.

[00:04:51] Did you struggle at all with that in those early years? 

[00:04:53] Chris: Never. No. I never had a single doubt that I'd chosen the right profession, and I had some difficult times. I mean, I, you know, I'm not gonna try and pretend that my career. Was harder. Of course it was hard. It, I'm not gonna say that it was, you know, I was really troubled at any time there were loads.

[00:05:12] I mean, I, I maybe I'm quite good at absorbing failure. I had a huge amount of failure. Um, everyone does in this industry. You have way more failure, even now, way more failure than you do success. But I was lucky to be blessed with the Constitution that just sucked it up, uh, and carried on. You know, that would be one of my sacred victims to any, to anyone in this industry.

[00:05:35] Um, it's not talent, it's not Lark. I mean, it is, it is partially those things, but the key. Ingredient you have to have for this industry is perseverance because you can learn the others. I mean, particularly screenwriting, unless they're acting. Cause I think that is a gift. I think you're born or not, you can get better at it by doing it.

[00:05:53] But your, your essential talent, I think is, is God given writing is a, is a craft. I, I believe that is like a craft like almost any other that you can largely learn over the years. So if you just stick at it and persevere and keep going, but I'm, I'm talking, you know, decades here, you know, you, you should prevail in the end.

[00:06:13] And I, and lots of people of course, can't do that for all sorts of reasons, financial reasons, or they, they just literally can't deal with the endless rejection and failure. And I get that. Um, but if you're lucky enough to be born with a constitution and a really tough in a, you know, an external toughness that allows you to shake off the.

[00:06:31] Disappointments. Then I never found myself so discouraged that I thought I've made the wrong choice. I, I, I, to this day, I'm just incredibly grateful that I found the thing I more or less always enjoy doing. I mean, lots of times it's hard and boring and, uh, demoralizing, but. Most of the time it's a lot more enjoyable than most people's jobs is my guess.

[00:06:54] I think 

[00:06:55] Mike: you're probably right there. Funnily enough, I, in my research, saw one of your old diary posts from one of those early years where you'd been talking about, I quote, I've been born with a Omega talent for writing, and I'm eeking out a living by it, but I'm not brilliant at it. How do you reflect on that now?

[00:07:12] I 

[00:07:13] Chris: forgot about that. That was an interview I did for, funnily enough, I was thinking about that podcast because it's called The Bottom Draw. No, it's called Off Cuts. 

[00:07:21] Mike: Yes. It gave me hope that quote. 

[00:07:23] Chris: Yeah. Well, it should give you hope because here's the funny thing, one of the things that I put in there, if the, the, the premise of the, of the podcast was that, um, can you read out or they, they perform five or six or seven pieces of work that.

[00:07:36] You'd written that Never, never saw the light of day. And you know, it could be an unwritten novel, uh, screenplay that never got made. I was, I had lots to draw on, um, diary entries, da da da, da da. But funnily enough, one of the things that I read out was one of my passion pieces never got made, has just been green lit.

[00:07:53] Yeah. So six years after, um, I had it read out on that podcast. It's just been green lit. So there's a, there's a good example of perseverance. Never give up. 

[00:08:03] Mike: Congratulations. Was it testament? 

[00:08:05] Chris: Uh, yeah. It was. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I sort of, you know, I think that what I wrote in that diary entry was, was kind of accurate.

[00:08:13] It, it, I was, I was born with a, a moderate talent. I probably had a good ear for a dialogue. I'm quite, I'm quite good on structure and I like the puzzle of structure like a chess game. Uh, Jigsaw. I like the satisfaction of making everything fit, but yeah. But you know, these are not, um, huge gifts. Uh uh, but over the years of learning, since I wrote that entry, I've written, it's actually you said in your intro a hundred ads.

[00:08:41] It's actually. About 150 hours. That's a lot of telling, you know, if you, and if you do that amount of stuff, and that's just the stuff that's been made. Obviously I've written a lot more than that, that never got made. So, you know, you just, by repetition simply you learn, uh, how to do this quite difficult job, uh, better.

[00:09:00] Uh, so my, I have parlayed my modest and me talent into a half decent 

[00:09:06] Mike: career. I'd say it's a little more than that, Chris, but yes. You said obviously you've, you found your talent for the writing, all that, but it wasn't your original love. Given that you went into acting as your first choice, was it a hard thing to walk away from or were you very much like, no, actually this is what it should be?

[00:09:23] It wasn't 

[00:09:23] Chris: hard at all. Um, I knew pretty much the first time I set pen to paper, which was a Nottingham Playhouse with. As you mentioned before, I did a comedy show with two guys, one of which was, and, and the first time we wrote something together, it was just you and I actually, uh, I remember feeling a great energy and, and a great sense of satisfaction.

[00:09:43] I'm not sure I ever got from acting. I liked the idea of creating, fully, creating rather than interpreting, and I never, I never shook that from that very first moment, and that was within three months of leaving. Rather So I, although I did carry on acting for maybe another 10 years maximum, um, my heart was never fully in it.

[00:10:04] Who knows what might have happened if certain things had have panned out, you know, differently. And our comedy showed in the end done better. I mean, it did pretty well at the time, but if it had taken us to the next level, maybe I would've stayed in that become more of a, an actor writer. But, um, You know, there's no doubt being an actor is an incredibly enjoyable job, um, stimulating, um, mentally and often great fun.

[00:10:28] Um, but the life is really tough. And, and I, I didn't enjoy that at all. Having no control, uh, being something of a control freak. I, I want to control my future and my destiny and my, my, my career. And, I want to cr control my creative impulses. I don't want someone else telling me when I can and can't do the thing that I love to do.

[00:10:48] So I mean, I, I write every day and have done for 40 years and no, no, it doesn't matter if no one buys it, I'm still doing the thing that I enjoy. Um, luckily most of the time these days people do buy it and they do mostly make it, but even if they didn't, I think I'd still do it. Interesting. 

[00:11:04] Mike: You mentioned the comedy writing.

[00:11:06] There was obviously your, your way in, but you, I guess, made your. Huge later success from the drama genre, and this seems to be quite common path for a lot of original comedy writers, like I heard recently, Terence Rip Winter, who wrote Boardwalk Empire in Wolf Wall Street. Saying that originally he couldn't even imagine himself writing anything long than a 22 page sitcom.

[00:11:27] How did you approach that? Did you actively be like, I want to write drama? Did it just happen? You mentioned that you were into structure, which obviously comes into a lot of your later work. 

[00:11:36] Chris: Yes. I written a couple of spec screenplays, uh, one with Hugh and Wa uh, in the eighties. Uh, and, and again, really enjoyed it.

[00:11:47] And all of, all the time that I was doing this, I was writing comedy. I, for other people, I was writing a lot of commercials, funny commercials. I was writing anything that anyone would pay me to do. I was writing a lot of sketches. But the people on the telly at the time, none of whom you'll now know, but they were the, the main.

[00:12:07] Comics of the day in the eighties, but I just, it never felt fully satisfying. I wanted to tell stories about human dishes, so I, I, I then did write a spec sprinkling with the express, um, intention of it, getting me onto a show, and it did. Uh, I was incredibly lucky. My plan, well, it went to plan completely.

[00:12:27] So I wrote a screenplay, which actually funny enough later became my first original series. It was about selling, it was my, it was the British answer to, uh, Glen Garrick. It wasn't anywhere near as good as that, but it got me onto the bill. So it, that was my plan. If I write a specs screenplay, showed it to my agent, he said, yeah, this is not dreadful, and I can send this out.

[00:12:48] My agent at that point was negotiating deals for me to write gags for, uh, people like Michael Barmore and, you know, light entertainment, uh, comedians who I'd somehow, well, the money was good, been drawn into it, and it really was, I was finding it very creatively wrong and unsatisfying. Um, so she was slightly surprised to see this full length feature, spec or land on her desk.

[00:13:14] But, you know, she ran with it and sent it out. And I got an interview of the bill, which was a, you know, very important staging post for a lot of writers. And I went in, did a, not an audition, did an interview, uh, uh, for them. And, and I got a gig. I got the, they offered me the opportunity to write a script, which would've been my first, um, Drama, uh, script ever written on telly.

[00:13:36] And, uh, it's, uh, it was half hour format with, and it was on I itv so it was only 24 and a half minutes of actual material. It took me a year to write. Uh, I mean, I was doing other things, but that's that. It was a, because it was a, it was, um, a structure that it wasn't a serialized series. Each episode was standalone.

[00:13:55] They were like tiny little play for days, and that that meant that I could take, as long as I had really good script editor and we just worked on it. It was her first job, my first job, and we just worked on it over a period of a year. And then it got me, it was a massive, massive buzz to watch a drama rather than just a five minute sketch or a two minute sketch, or a one-liner on telly, which I'd had a lot of in in the preceding seven or eight years.

[00:14:16] To see your first half hour drama. I remember sitting in a little screening room down at the production office down in, uh, south London, just being so happy that I'd written a drama and it felt like I was a proper writer. And from that, everything came. Everything led from 

[00:14:31] Mike: that. I love that. I can hear it in your voice when you say it.

[00:14:34] Do you think that, you mentioned the word staging post there, writing for stuff like casualty, the bill. It's a really great way in for writers, isn't it? Cuz we don't necessarily have the same writers' rooms and stuff as American style for the screenwriters of today. Would you say that those places still exist to write for in the smaller way, or it's changed quite a lot, I guess.

[00:14:54] Chris: It's changed, but there are lots of, there are still lots of shows. Not dissimilar to it. There's, I think doctors is still running in the afternoon shows like Father Brown, um, which is daytime TV shows, like, um, casualty's still going, holy's finished, hasn't it? The soaps obviously. You know, th these are, this is where 90% of British writers would've started on one or other of those.

[00:15:19] I didn't, I never did the soaked. But the bill wasn't a billion miles away from a soap half hour format. Played three times weekly in the end. Yeah. And if you know, you, you obviously don't, I didn't, I wrote 12 or 13 episodes of it. So, you know, I was on it for two or three years and it, it taught me a huge amount, uh, not least economy, because in 24 and a half minutes you've just got, You've gotta really be economical to tell a a three act story.

[00:15:48] You know? That's, it's, it's, it was quite a challenge. 

[00:15:50] Mike: Absolutely. To move on to some of your more recent work, one of the questions I would love to ask you is when you are designing a world for, in example, in something like Unforgotten, do you have much of a process? What? Like what do you start with first?

[00:16:02] Because they are so expansive? I think, you know, someone like Stephen King begins with a situation over the character, other people character first. Do you have a. Mental roadmap that you use. Yeah. Particularly given that you are so many series down now, I imagine it's a bit more of a process. 

[00:16:17] Chris: Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:17] It becomes quite prescribed by the time you get to right the sixth because you know what works and you process that can be utterly terrifying trying to create six hours of tele television. It's you, you know, you, you are always drawn towards things that have worked before in terms of the process. So yeah, I have a pretty prescribed process now.

[00:16:38] What I start with first is a theme. What do I wanna say? What do I wanna write about? And it's the last two series, one that's just gone out. And the one that I'm writing now are both much more political. In one, I examined friendship, male friendship in one. I examined child sex abuse, um, in one I examined.

[00:16:57] Our relationship with the police, if I described it, I write, I write a pitch for each series, which is like maybe 5, 6, 7 pages, which outlines the primary theme. So series four was a, was both a jaz and a love letter to the police. So it had that sort of, you know, why have we got such a, we have a relationship that was quite schizophrenic with the police.

[00:17:16] We both love them and, and, and lo them, and for good reasons. So, yeah, I do that. I write a six, seven page, uh, outline theme, broad strokes of the plot and the key antagonists. And then when that gets the, the tick, I then go away and write a very detailed storyline. Um, and the process I use is, is always the same.

[00:17:37] I write the characters, the antagonists, characters, storyline, first episode by episode, so I know what all their big, the major beats are at the end of every app and where they've got to. And then slightly weirdly, I thread the investigation through that. So I put the investigation afterwards. I, and so when I'm writing the characters, I'm, I'll put down Marcus, say big investigative turn here.

[00:18:00] I don't necessarily know what that is at that point, but I know that something rhythmically has to shift in their story. And so therefore I will, I will create the investigative twists and turns and re revelations. Um, and that's, that's how I do it and that works. And I will probably, I'm writing this new series now and I'll probably apply quite a similar structure to that.

[00:18:20] When you have a multi stranded series with multiple characters, I, I find it much less daunting to break it down into manageable sections. And if you are, you know, the idea of creating story. Inter weaving story for 5, 6, 7 characters is really mind bogglingly difficult. But if you say, this week I'm just gonna work through one character and take him from the beginning to the end, uh, and then the next week I'm just gonna do another character, it becomes very doable.

[00:18:50] Because it then, you know, if you say give yourself four or five weeks to do this, it's not that hard to write. You know, that might give you a week to write one character's, uh, episodic journey, which means it might only, you might have a day or so to write one episode of the journey. And that's, that's not, that's not, that doesn't seem that hard to me.

[00:19:08] You just have to think of some things that happen. 

[00:19:11] Mike: That's a good way to describe the job. Yeah. 

[00:19:14] Chris: Yeah. Makes the, makes the stuff up. 

[00:19:16] Mike: Yeah. And do you have like a specific. Writing process each day, like, um, you know, a certain amount of hours you write or, you know, sit down at this type writer. I can't write here.

[00:19:26] I write anywhere. I write in cafes. 

[00:19:27] Chris: Well, I can write anywhere. Um, but I don't tend to, uh, I tend to work mainly in my office. I used to write a lot at So House because I like to sit, uh, to. Chair looking out on Dean Street. Um, but my back plays up too much for me to do that now. So I kind, I tend to sort of work from home more, and I work on a laptop almost exclusively.

[00:19:47] I've got a sit down stand up desk, so I'm constantly trying to, I sit on sofa with a lectern in front of me. I try and mix it up as much as possible. Um, but yeah, I skipped to the desk at pretty much eight 30 every, every morning. I do some stretches so that my tired dog body doesn't collapse under me. And, uh, I'm, I'm writing by nine at the latest this morning.

[00:20:09] Actually, I was writing by about seven 15 because I, I work up early and I thought, why not? And I'll generally work through till about six, something like that. Amazing. Yeah. So, It's never less than eight hours. Really? I don't take a lunch break. I just grab a sandwich and bring it up to my 

[00:20:27] Mike: office. Very cool.

[00:20:28] One of the questions I wanted to ask you is the numbers that your shows pull in are absolutely massive, and particularly for like the modern day of streaming with unlimited options and this and that. Is there anything that you've ever thought about? You, you mentioned theme there with your own work and, and why it seems to connect so viscerally with people in the modern age, because as I mentioned, you know, streaming options, the, the TV.

[00:20:52] Anyone could choose anything now, and yet everybody seems to be choosing yours each time. 10 million, 8 million. It's, it's unbelievable. Have you ever thought that there's a thread, humanity, I guess is something you talked about before? 

[00:21:03] Chris: It is unbelievable. It's the third most watch show of the year. Yeah. I think I write shows where I try and connect.

[00:21:11] With both the characters and therefore vicariously with the audience where they can see some of themselves in the people. Even when I'm writing about people who have committed the worst sins, I always strive to understand how they've come to this place, how they've. Stepped over that line because I think we are all quite close to it.

[00:21:33] And, and I've talked a lot about in the past, you know, compassion and forgiveness. Um, you know, just we, we, we are doing this chat as the fallout still continues from Phil Scofield's, um, misdemeanors and. I'm, I'm still staggered, even though he is done something pretty reprehensible. I am staggered by the relish with which people are celebrating his, you know, total destruction.

[00:21:57] And whilst I think he absolutely deserved, you know, sense and, and, and punishment. I'm not sure that, I think the ending of a, of a career for good seems abor and there's very little compassion in the response to him cuz you can be angry with someone and you can want them punished. But the desire for destruction, uh, and annihilation seems, uh, a curious, uh, impulse and, and a lack of attempt to understand why people might have.

[00:22:24] Done bad things. So I think I, my shows tried to do that. I, it was really interesting watching the canoe, uh, show on Twitter. Cause I knew that people were gonna come to it with a very strong sense of, uh, outrage of the fact that we were even dramatizing this woman's story because of what she'd done and how people felt she heard.

[00:22:45] So maligned and betrayed her children, which she, she absolutely had done. But, you know, there was a reason, there's always a reason, there's always a reason why people transgress, uh, and often it's to do with, you know, their own personal tragedy and pain and damage, almost always. And so watching that journey, uh, at the audience as I sort of set out the stall and sh showed this woman without, Trying to, uh, mitigate and, uh, uh, at first just show the events and then slowly you begin to understand why she did what she did and how controlled she was and how coercive he was.

[00:23:20] And you just, I just watched the audience slowly grow and change and people that are absolutely violently opposed to even the idea of this story being told, and certainly opposed to her. Completely flipped and said, my God, this poor woman, how, how outrageous was it that she was sent to jail for a sentence of six years and, and six months?

[00:23:41] Um, and that's, you know, that you can only do that if you are engaging with the character in a compassionate way and saying you can still say someone did something terrible, but you can also reach for forgiveness and understanding. There's nothing wrong with that. Um, it doesn't. Undermined that they did something bad, but it helps us move forward.

[00:24:01] I think, you know, there's always a message of hope in my stuff. I think there's always a message of this terrible thing has happened, so how can we learn from it? How can we make something better? And that, yeah, maybe that's why. That's why it connects with people. 

[00:24:14] Mike: Yeah. And that's something that everyone wants to believe in, regardless of what they're saying on Twitter as their human base.

[00:24:19] I'm sure. Which is probably why everyone wants to watch them. 

[00:24:21] Chris: Yeah, I, I, I think so. You know, watching again, the audience on series five have forgotten and watching then come to that show again with pain and resentment that the lead had gone and the character had gone. And then watching, you know, this prickly difficult character come into it.

[00:24:40] And again, watching the audience slowly get to know her, see her pain, see, understand who she was, and the fact that she was going through a deeply traumatic time and slowly warm to her. And then, you know, the relationship blossoms and they found connection with each other, those two, uh, protagonists and.

[00:24:56] The audience really responded to that, and they, of course, they want it to be good. We all do. We, we want things to work out. Uh, we know it's difficult and there's a million ities that we'll face along the way, but in the end we, we've gotta kind of hope for the best. And sometimes it does happen. Often it happens.

[00:25:16] And I think, you know, I would always try and leave the audience with a sense 

[00:25:18] Mike: of hope. Thank you for that wonderful answer. Now to wrap up on red carpet rookies, Chris, I ask all of my guests the same few questions, which is based on the active studio questionnaire. So just think of the first thing that comes into your head, if that's okay.

[00:25:33] The first question is, what is one of the best pieces of advice you've ever been given? 

[00:25:39] Chris: When I was thinking of forming my own company, which I did then go on to do, I remember I spoke to a, an exec at a company that I was working for who owned his own very successful company, and I said, what advice would you give to me?

[00:25:53] He said, never lose your temper with a commissioner. And actually never lose your temper or get frustrated with, well, try never to do it because whoever it is you are working for, if it's a junior, really junior producer, it's a script editor, it's a whatever, it's quite likely that one day they will be the commissioner and they will remember that you were that asshole that that, uh, got, got crossed with them.

[00:26:21] So always smile, always take rejection and. The nose that you are, that are inevitable part, just take 'em with a smile. Even if inside you wanna leap up and, um, throttle them, just take it with a smile. And it's good advice. It's really good advice because it's, it's hard to accept rejection endlessly for, you know, decades.

[00:26:42] And as I said earlier, I'm still taking it now. Um, but do it with a smile and you'll find life will be easier. 

[00:26:50] Mike: Love that. Number two, do you have a favorite film? 

[00:26:53] Chris: God, that's a tough one. But yeah, I guess I would probably say, it goes back to my earlier answer about structure. I'd probably say Groundhog Day.

[00:27:04] Uh, I think it's the most exquisitely, perfectly structured film ever made. Um, not, and, and of course it's a brilliant character study and it's very, very funny, so it's hard to fault it. 

[00:27:17] Mike: Cool. Number three, what gives you a reason to get out of bed every day for a day of writing? I. I haven't 

[00:27:22] Chris: lost the desire to tell a story.

[00:27:26] I love telling stories and my wife is always saying, you are never gonna stop and retire. And I say, oh no, I will. I will, I will. And she'll say, no. Someone will ring you up and say, oh, do you fancy this story? I've just read in the paper? Would you like to adapt it? And I'll go and I'll go. Ooh. Because it, you just want to get into it and try and work out why people did what they did.

[00:27:48] Mike: I love that. I know that feeling. Number four, which job in the industry would you do if you weren't doing yours? I think, 

[00:27:53] Chris: uh, I would have directed if life circumstances hadn't have 

[00:27:58] Mike: intruded. Number five. If you could work with one person, living or dead, who would it be? I would 

[00:28:03] Chris: love to have written and to have worked with, although I did work with it very briefly, but written something for Tony Hopkins.

[00:28:11] Mike: Lovely. Number six. What is a book, ideally career focused, but doesn't have to be that everyone should read? I. Well, I've never read 

[00:28:17] Chris: a screen writing book in my life, but a book about screenwriters, um, is William Goldman a book, uh, adventures in the Screen Trade, which, you know, every young writer should read.

[00:28:27] It's, it's, it's brilliant, funny, insightful, and of course the first line, uh, in the fly leaf, which is no one knows anything, is great piece 

[00:28:35] Mike: of advice. Classic. And finally, if you won an Oscar, who would you thank? Chris? I would 

[00:28:39] Chris: thank, um, I would thank my mom and dad, even though they're no longer here, but I would thank them because they gave me everything.

[00:28:46] Mike: Which takes us back to our first question and then bringing you into the arts. Thank you so much for your time today, Chris, for your wisdom and advice. It's been brilliant. Brilliant. 

[00:28:55] Chris: Thank you.

[00:28:58] Mike: Thank you for listening to another episode of Red Carpet Rookies. To help us grow and be able to interview more amazing film and TV professionals, please do subscribe and drop us a rating on the Apple Podcast store, on your iPhone or online. If you're an Android user. If you're interested in regular updates, the best thing you can do is to join our mailing list@redcarpetrookies.com or alternatively find us on Instagram at red carpet rookies or Twitter at rc rookies pod.

[00:29:26] I also tweet regularly about my own learnings in the business at Mike F. Battle on Twitter. So please do come and say hi. Thank you again for listening. We'll see you next time.